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<verbatim>
Minutes of the sv-sc sub-committee meeting, July 08, 2008

=================Attendance=============================

   0021020220 Day
   8147306817
   0000000000 Month
   7766655444
   0000000000 Year
   8888888888

--[---------a]   Arturo Salz          - Synopsys
vv[a-aaaa-aa-]   Abigail Morehouse    - Mentor
--[---------a]   Bassam Tabbara       - Synopsys
--[---------a]   Brad Pierce          - Synopsys
--[-----a-aaa]   Cliff Cummings       - Sunburst Design
--[--a--aaaaa]   Dave Rich            - Mentor Graphics
vv[aaaaaaa-aa]   Dmitry Korchemny     - Intel
--[-----a-aa-]   Don Mills            -
--[-----aaaaa]   Eduard Cerny         - Synopsys
tt[aaaaaaaaaa]   Erik Seligman        - Intel (chair)
vv[a-aaaaaaaa]   Francoise Martinolle - Cadence
vv[aaaaaaaaaa]   Gordon Vreugdenhil   - Mentor Graphics
vv[aaa-aaaaa-]   Jin Yang             - Intel
--[----aaaaaa]   John Havlicek        - Freescale
--[---------a]   Jonathan Bromley     - Doulas
--[----a--a-a]   Karen Pieper         - Accellera
vv[-aaaaaaaaa]   Lisa Piper           - Cadence
vv[aa-aaaaaaa]   Manisha Kulshrestha  - Mentor Graphics
vv[aaaaaaaaaa]   Mark Hartoog         - Synopsys
--[----aaaaaa]   Mehdi Mohtashemi     - Synopsys
vv[aaaaaaa...]   Michael Burns        - Freescale
--[a---aaaaaa]   Mirek Forczek        - Aldec
vv[aa--aaaaaa]   Neil Korpusik        - Sun Microsystems
--[--------a-]   Ray Ryan             - Mentor
--[--------aa]   Shalom Bresticker    - Intel
vv[a-aaaaaaaa]   Steven Sharp         - Cadence
--[-------aaa]   Stu Sutherland       - Sutherland HDL
--[--------aa]   Surrendra Dudani     - Synopsys
vv[aaaaaaaaaa]   Tom Thatcher         - Sun Microsystems (co-chair)
||
||---- Voting eligibility for current meeting
|------Voting eligibility for next meeting


====================Agenda==============================

Agenda:

   1.  Review the patent policy
   2.  Approve the minutes from the last meeting, available at
       http://www.eda.org/twiki/bin/view.cgi/P1800/SvScMeetingMinutes20080701
   3.  Review of Mantis items:
          * 1728: Let statements: Vote in progress. Don't forget to vote!
	    Also, may need voice vote on last-minute update posted by Dmitry.
          * 2415: Ended/triggered fixes: deprecate ended, use triggered
	    everywhere. Vote in progress. Don't forget to vote!
          * 2413: Inferred functions in let (Dmitry): Was going to have some
	    additional review from Manisha, Dmitry after last week.
	    Ready to vote?
          * 2398: Concurrent Asserts in Procedural Code: New semantics:
	    (Erik/Gord). Erik's updates based on feedback to be posted before
	    meeting. Ready to vote?
          * 2370: $past in Procedural Code (Jin). Jin/Lisa were going to review
	    that issues are truly complete. Voice vote on closing as duplicate
	    of 1698.
          * 1900: Checkers: (Dmitry/Erik/Mike/Tom): Any missing proposal
	    sections? Are we ready to vote once Dmitry assembles full proposal
	    & incorporates changes from this week's reviews?
          * 2182: VPI Diagrams for Checkers (Chuck Berking): TBA.
          * 2434: 1549 update: self-determined types (Gord): Assign reviewers,
	    plan for vote next week.
          * 2396: New "@edge clk" proposal (Jin): Assign reviewers, plan for
	    vote next week.
          * 2414: New proposal for 'let' VPI (Abi): Status? 
   4. Technical topics
          * Opens? 
====================Summary==============================
1.  Votes in progress on 1728 and 2415
2.  Preparing for vote on 1900 (part 1 only), 2398, 2370
3.  Mantis 2413 (Inferred functions in let) will be dropped

====================Notes==============================

1 Patent policy
	Move:  Neil :  Accept patent policy 
	Second: Michael
	Unanimously approved.


2.  Approve Minutes
	Move:  Neil:  Approve minutes from last meeting
	Second: Tom
	Unanimously approved

3.  Review of Mantis Items
  * 1728:  Vote in progress
	    Dmitry had uploaded a change based on Mirek's comments.
	    Only Tom had voted before this change.
	    Tom will review change, and re-vote on the changed proposal.
  * 2415:  Vote in progress
  * 2413:  Inferred functions in let.
    Dmitry	- Drop this proposal for this PAR because of potential non-intuitive 
		  behavior.
  * 2398:  Concurrent assertions in procedural code
    Erik	- Uploaded new proposal yesterday.
    		- Readyto vote?
		- Will put in corrections and call a vote
  * 2370:  Past in Procedural code
    Jin		- Some style issues:  Not a major issue.
    		- Could consider as a duplicate of 1698
    Erik	Will call an E-mail vote to consider as a duplicate of 1698.
    Jin		- Will put comments on 2370 to explain the issues.

  * 1900:
    Michael	- Did intend that temporal assumptions would be used for
    		  randomization.
		- Constraints are solved combinationally, using past values.
		  for current cycle only.
    Gord	- This is a quality of results problem.
    Erik	- For example, A |-> ##5 0  Will fail.
    Gord	- In Testbench area, it is possible to determine if randomiazation
		  fails.   Here we can't tell if it fails.  We just have an
		  assume property fire.
    Dmitry	- What about const free variables
    Michael	- May want to leave it open as to when they change
    Gord	- If they change they change at same time other free vars are
    		  changing
    MIchael	- change only once per timestep
    Gord	- once per entry into observed
    MIchael	- const free var:  Could they be constrained with assumes?
    		  When would we solve them?
    Dmitry	- Solve at beginning of simulation.
    		- Solve using assumptions that use only constant values
    MIchael	- Won't this require new syntax/semantics??
    Michael	- Like the idea of ignoring assumes for solving const free var
    Dmitry	- Formulate it as "may ignore"
    Michael	- But there is no impossible way to use assumptions
    		  without having unclocked assumptions

    Gord	- Question about assume set  What is "next" clock 
    Michael	- 
    Gord	- So when any of the clocks of any of the assumptions fire,
    		  you re-solve?
    Michael	- has to look at it.
    Michael	- If there are two assumptions, with two different clocks,
		  that constrain two different free vars, a change in one clock
		  would force solving of both variables . . .
    Gord	- Current wording requires this.
    Michael	- When do variables change, when are they stable.

    Michael	- If you have fast clock and slow clock, free vars constrained
    		  by assumptions on slow clock not guaranteed to be stable at
		  fast clock ticks.

    Erik	- Call for a vote on part 1
    Dmitry	- Wanted change to BNF

  * 2182:  VPI diagrams for checkers
  * 2434:  Self-determined types
    Erik	- Call for reviewers
		  Fransoise: 

  * 2396:  @edge clk
    Erik	- Call for reviewers
		    Tom
		    Gord:  Will also look at it
  * 2414:  New proposal for let VPI
    Erik	- Reviewers?
    Abi		- I reviewed it already
    		- Wasn't there something similar in 1503?
		- Will take another look.


4.  Techinal Topics
  * Covergroups
    Tom		- Covergroups are an important feature.
    		  They are needed to create libraries of checker with
		  functional coverage.
    Michael	- Lots of complications.
    Tom		- Will work to resolve them.

Next meeting will be  July 15

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-- Main.ErikSeligman - 09 Jul 2008
Topic revision: r1 - 2008-07-16 - 20:51:24 - TWikiGuest
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